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Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker
- Thread starter igyman
- Start date
I skipped Solo... and I'm skipping this until people can verify to me that it is actually worth going to see and isn't going to make me want to stab ice-picks through my eyes like The Last Jedi did.
IG-64
LFN Veteran
While certain reveals in this trailer are intriguing, I am very skeptical of whatever new twists they're introducing so late in the game because they'll have to set it up and then deal with it within the same movie. They missed their chance in TLJ for an "I am your father" moment and if they try to introduce one into this movie then it'll just cause pacing issues.
Okay, so the things I got from that teaser trailer:
- Lightsaber is fixed, despite Rian wanting it destroyed.
- That TIE Interceptor pilot is an idiot flying that low when they could've just sniped Rey from the air, high above her position.
- Rey is still overpowered and we'll never feel any sense of danger and excitement aside from "wow pretty visuals."
- Kylo Ren regains his mask because JJ wants it despite Rian not wanting it... and other patch fixed that are trying to erase the issues The Last Jedi caused.
- Finn has Rey's staff now.
- BB-8 has a new, smaller droid companion for some reason, mostly to up the "cute" factor, I suppose.
- Lando. Because. Lando.
- Finn, Poe and Chewie are there and they have adventures, but I'm pretty sure they're going to remain as background characters.
- A-Wing being destroyed... no X-Wings seen. Guess they're out of fashion now lol.
- CGI Leia, can't let Carrie Fisher rest in peace just yet.
- A THIRD Death Star since the world they're on doesn't look like the forest moon of Endor or Yavin IV.
- And apparently Sheev (Palpatine) is back, meaning that anyone can just come back all of a sudden.
- The title being "The Rise of Skywalker"? Well, I've always said this, from the moment I first watched The Force Awakens. Rey = Anakin.
Wouldn't that be horrible lol! Please, no.
Unless it's a Kylo redemption story, that hasn't been done yet... oh wait.
In all seriousness, I'll probably begrudgingly see it when it some out on blue ray. I skipped Solo and still haven't seen it and don't plan to.
Kathleen Kennedy is just terrible. Part of me hopes it fails miserably so Disney will get rid of her.
Say what you you want about Abrams, but at least he gets the subject matter. I'm not going to say he's a great director or anything, but he at least gets it and will try to make a film fans want to see. I mean, he's trying to undo the mess Rian created at least.
Meh, I guess well just have to wait and see.
I think part of the issue that people have (and rightly so) is that JJ tends to just take the great things that other people have done and rehash them instead of creating something new that builds on top of what has already been done.
And this is part of the problem, you have JJ on one end who wants to make callbacks to all the old things and Rian on the other end who wants you to forget about all the old things and destroys them in front of your face and then you have JJ again trying to recover all the things Rian was doing in the middle movie.
There is no direction, it's just going all over the place with its only saving grace being "Remember that thing you like? Here it is again!"
igyman
Lifelong LFN Member
This is the core of the problem. They announced a trilogy, so the audience assumed that they have some sort of plan on what story they are trying to tell. Unfortunately, as we've seen, they don't. Abrams is trying to get the audience to watch it based on nostalgia, KK is trying to push her personal political agendas into it and Johnson is just a spineless puppet doing whatever he's told without question. I honestly don't get how his trilogy is still a thing.
jigos
Ahto Spaceport Cantina
On the subject of the sequels, I don't know if you guys have seen this, but:
Behold, how one fan, in 15 minutes, outdoes an entire multibillion-dollar empire and presents a film with more Star Wars heart and spirit than every post-Lucas Star Wars movie combined.
Behold, how one fan, in 15 minutes, outdoes an entire multibillion-dollar empire and presents a film with more Star Wars heart and spirit than every post-Lucas Star Wars movie combined.
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I remember when this entire endeavour started, Kathleen Kennedy and co were adamant that they had a plan. They told us that they were taking steps to form a direction and that they would stick with that direction and put lots of time and effort into making this entire thing one cohesive universe.
They scrapped the expanded universe for this reason, so that they could make the canon works form something that is consistent and logical... and that is exactly what we didn't get. Now we're stuck with this malformed abomination that is barely holding together and doesn't know what it wants to be.
They scrapped the expanded universe for this reason, so that they could make the canon works form something that is consistent and logical... and that is exactly what we didn't get. Now we're stuck with this malformed abomination that is barely holding together and doesn't know what it wants to be.
igyman
Lifelong LFN Member
Saw this. For a fan project, it's extremely well done. Especially from the visual side of things. He actually released a teaser for episode 2 a couple days ago:
This.
Rebel
C3F Member
Look I'm gonna be That Guy and say I actually enjoy the new movies. It definitely shows that they lack a cohesive plan. I'm not going to play the blame game on who's responsible for that, they all are, from the top to the bottom. But I'm not going to laud Lucas as a great writer. I mean he's the guy who gave us Ewoks and Jar-Jar. I have otherwise generally enjoyed what has been presented to me. I do not consider these movies to be the worst among the Star Wars franchise.
I don't think this at all... in fact, I am heavily critical of the prequel trilogy and still am. I am now critical of the sequel trilogy as well. Both are terrible for very different reasons.
I also believe that Lucas' ideas to need to be put through a filter and brainstormed, which is why we got Empire Strikes Back the way we did and A New Hope had the benefit of Lucas not biting off more than he could chew.
Rebel
C3F Member
I'm critical of all the movies. They're "classics" but like a lot of classics if you stop and sit down and really dig into them, there are problems. Storytelling problems. Characterization problems. Continuity problems.
For as imperfect as the New Trilogy is, I've largely learned the best way to enjoy a movie is to just sit down and enjoy it. These aren't thought-provoking murder-thrillers. They're sci-fi soaps. You can turn on any daytime soap and get a story that is about as deep as Star Wars. Star Wars did something new with the soap-opera genre back in the day and that's great. But nothing's really changed about how it's set up, and frankly, I just don't think "what worked back then" is going to work now.
And they'll never please the fans. NEVER. Because the fans are some of the worst, most intractable group of toxic elitists I've ever met. Nothing is good enough for them. Nothing is accurate enough for them. Nothing includes their one favorite character, their idealized villain. The little universe they've made up in their head. And it's not just Star Wars. "Fandoms" in general have become terrible hives of scum and villainy the likes of which even Han wouldn't be caught in.
Well, there's the thing. I understand that they're meant for a different audience, but my tastes in terms of Star Wars don't overlap with the audience they're targeting. I completely understand that there is a market segment out there who enjoy these movies the way they are... but I don't.
It's not a case of "it's not exactly how I want to it be as a Star Wars fan, therefore it sucks" it's a case of "this is not my type of movie" and nothing more. The Last Jedi is a terrible movie, not just a terrible Star Wars movie, but a terrible movie in general where the plot makes no sense and the logic falls apart from the start.
I was very forgiving of The Force Awakens, but after The Last Jedi, when I learned that there was no direction at all and, in fact, different creative ideals clashing with each other, TLJ affected my view of TFA. I still think TFA works as a dumb action adventure you just go in for the ride, but I maintain that TLJ is utter garbage as a movie.
It's not a case of "it's not exactly how I want to it be as a Star Wars fan, therefore it sucks" it's a case of "this is not my type of movie" and nothing more. The Last Jedi is a terrible movie, not just a terrible Star Wars movie, but a terrible movie in general where the plot makes no sense and the logic falls apart from the start.
I was very forgiving of The Force Awakens, but after The Last Jedi, when I learned that there was no direction at all and, in fact, different creative ideals clashing with each other, TLJ affected my view of TFA. I still think TFA works as a dumb action adventure you just go in for the ride, but I maintain that TLJ is utter garbage as a movie.
Rebel
C3F Member
I hear this comment a lot. But I just don't see it. I'd have to rewatch the movie again, which I don't mind since as I said, I generally enjoyed it. But for all the complaints about it, I just never saw them.
The only thing I expressly didn't like was the casino-planet place.
@Rebel I went on opening day of The Last Jedi with a group of four others who have different opinions of Star Wars. I was a big Star Wars fan at that point while the others were either casual fans or just there to see a movie.
We all hated it and couldn't believe we wasted the money to go and see it. When we went to lunch after the movie we all discussed everything wrong with that movie in length. It was the first movie I ever saw where I actively disliked it as I was watching it.
We all hated it and couldn't believe we wasted the money to go and see it. When we went to lunch after the movie we all discussed everything wrong with that movie in length. It was the first movie I ever saw where I actively disliked it as I was watching it.
m4v
C3F Member
Not going to watch it at the cinema for sure, I didn't enjoy the Disney's movies at all.
The thing that made me want to flip tables was Rose sabotaging Finn's sacrifice because something about love. Like... the sister that you care so much sacrificed herself for the rebel cause and now you're putting that in jeopardy because of cartoon morals? what?
There's the weaponized hyperdrive. It was never done in universe and subverts all the fancy space combat because when every ship has one you can kill pretty much anything. The Death Stars become stupid ideas in comparison, hitting a planet with a hyperdrive-projectile should be enough.
The thing that made me want to flip tables was Rose sabotaging Finn's sacrifice because something about love. Like... the sister that you care so much sacrificed herself for the rebel cause and now you're putting that in jeopardy because of cartoon morals? what?
This.
I remember very clearly when I went and saw The Last Jedi, this was the moment where I actually leaned back in my seat and I was right there with Finn and his decision to sacrifice himself for the greater good.
Then, Rose happened... and the resulting scene was a huge slap in the face to whatever scrap of logic that moment had in the movie to begin with.
Rebel
C3F Member
Having "not seen something" in the universe is a terrible excuse for saying this is a bad element. The Death Star was as much an instrument of destruction as one of terror. It's like a nuclear bomb, you're not really supposed to USE the thing more than once or twice. On top of that, "suicide runs" and "kamikazi attacks" are not generally associated with the "good guys" which the rebels are. So for all we know the Rebellion, always being low on ships, never did them because A: they didn't want to waste their few ships and B: felt it was an unsettling tactic.
Beyond that: quite frankly my dear I don't give a doop. It was arguably one of the most visually striking scenes in all of Star Wars. I don't care if it's never been done before.
Sure, I agree with that. But the rest of the on-planet battle was very impressive. I feel like people take little moments like this, which silly as they are, and blow them up like that was the ONLY thing in the movie.
No offence to the actress, but I feel like her character was largely unnecessary, as were many of the scenes she was involved in. I think she did a fine job of the character she was given, I just don't think her character needed to well, exist.
The entire casino-place scene? SKIP! So what is Rose (ugh, after Titanic, the female love interest should never be named "Rose" ever again) for now? I'd rather Finn and Poe be love interests. Want to get DJ on the ship (please lets cut his character too?) just yadda-yadda "hey guys I heard you were looking for a hacker and I'm the best but I don't talk about it!" and I'm already on the ship! Save about 20 minutes of the movie.
Honestly aside from that scene (and Rose in general) there was really nothing that irritated me about the movie.
@Rebel: It's more of a case of, you just redefined the rules of engagement, past, present and future, with a single throw away scene played for "wows" when you assured everyone that you would be making a cohesive, logical universe and spending a lot of time and money to do just that.
That one scene represents LucasFilm's total lack of story/lore cohesion because it was played purely for the spectacle with none of the people in charge caring about how it affects other things in the universe.
I agree that, for a regular moviegoer, this point means absolutely nothing to them... and that's fine. But for long time Star Wars fans, it's a huge disappointment.
Overall, Disney Star Wars isn't made for old time Star Wars fans and I'm fine with that which is why I'm not going to see these new movies. It's just like how these new Star Trek series/movies like Discovery and the JJ-verse Star Trek movies aren't made for old time Star Trek fans, but a new audience. I'm not interested in those either.
That one scene represents LucasFilm's total lack of story/lore cohesion because it was played purely for the spectacle with none of the people in charge caring about how it affects other things in the universe.
I agree that, for a regular moviegoer, this point means absolutely nothing to them... and that's fine. But for long time Star Wars fans, it's a huge disappointment.
Overall, Disney Star Wars isn't made for old time Star Wars fans and I'm fine with that which is why I'm not going to see these new movies. It's just like how these new Star Trek series/movies like Discovery and the JJ-verse Star Trek movies aren't made for old time Star Trek fans, but a new audience. I'm not interested in those either.
Rebel
C3F Member
From the perspective of warfare, this is not unusual. When the submarine was invented, Germany believed that the rules of war did not apply to submarines. Japanese kamakazi pilots. Modern suicide bombers. There is nothing illogical going on here. A person who viewed themselves as a hero made a heroic sacrifice, which may alter the way the First Order approaches defeating the Rebels, and may alter the way the Rebels continue to fight the First Order.
This goes back to the Rose saving Finn issue, if Finn continued this approach, as he intended, it would have solidified the idea that the Rebels are now taking a more "die fighting" approach. Now we're stuck waiting to see if it will continue in the next movie. I doubt it will, but if it does, then the writers have made a cohesive and logical change to the way the Empire/Rebellion dynamic plays out. There's nothing illogical here.
When people believe they are on the verge of total annihilation, they'll do some pretty crazy stuff. "Caring how it affects the universe." is the domain of the Jedi. Killing Imps is the domain of the Rebellion, and yes, it killed Imps, a whole bloody lot of them.
As a long time Star Wars fan, I disagree.
Honestly, no matter how many times I have this conversation with no matter how many Star Wars fans, I'll never know what the Star Wars fans actually want.
The problem is that the kind of warfare that has been occurring in Star Wars has been happening for a very long time. Submarines were new and with them came new, never before thought of tactics and strategies.
The problem is that anything done in The Last Jedi is moot because it's obvious that JJ and company are trying to distance themselves from everything that episode did short of the changes that they can't ignore.
Hell, JJ Abrams even admitted that there is no plan for this series, which goes against the assurances we had when this all started.
The problem is that anything done in The Last Jedi is moot because it's obvious that JJ and company are trying to distance themselves from everything that episode did short of the changes that they can't ignore.
Hell, JJ Abrams even admitted that there is no plan for this series, which goes against the assurances we had when this all started.
Rebel
C3F Member
Okay...and now some new stuff happened.
And THAT I agree is a problem. Even if they decided to do some new stuff, there should have been much more effort put in to making it all work together, even if it was different from the original or prequel trilogy, it should at least be internally consistent. So yeah, no disagreement there, but I think people are getting too worked up over new stuff. Things change, yeah okay Star Wars might not be made for "old fans" anymore, I don't know.
But I don't know how many different iterations of Transformers I've seen, each with their own little take on how things should be done. You either learn to sit back and enjoy the ride or you get all bent out of shape. The latter's no fun.
But that's the thing, The Last Jedi itself was and is a problem because it ignored everything that came before it as well and decided to throw much of it away while making inappropriate jokes constantly throughout the movie at the same time.
It's like they were attempting to make a comedic critique of Star Wars and ended up simply lifting jokes straight out of Spaceballs to do it because they couldn't come up with their own ideas.
Internally, it was such a shift in the way the universe functioned that it was far too jarring for old hands of the series. New stuff happened and it didn't make sense in relation to the old stuff.
It's like they were attempting to make a comedic critique of Star Wars and ended up simply lifting jokes straight out of Spaceballs to do it because they couldn't come up with their own ideas.
Internally, it was such a shift in the way the universe functioned that it was far too jarring for old hands of the series. New stuff happened and it didn't make sense in relation to the old stuff.
Swiss Light sabre
Better off just watching episodes of The Mandalorian and play Jedi: Fallen Order to be honest...
jigos
Ahto Spaceport Cantina
Movie was shite.
Stupid dialogue, stupid writing, and worst of all, stupid entire premise from the get-go.
At this point, I'm not even angry. When I consider the disfigured mess this new trilogy was, I feel a deep sense of sadness. A new Star Wars trilogy. Not just a game or a TV show, but a main movie trilogy. What an incredibly opportunity to revitalize Star Wars in the cultural zeitgeist, energize enthusiasts, and bring in new generations of fans. Instead we got this mangled mess.
Yep.
I take issue with the claim that the movies did not get a good reception because the 'fans were toxic'. No. The fans are reasonable. Look at how most of the world loves The Mandalorian and Jedi: Fallen Order. Everyone wants Star Wars to succeed, and are waiting with open arms for when it does. 'The fans are toxic' is just an excuse. The Sequel Trilogy were just bad movies. That's it.
On the subject of The Mandalorian and Jedi: Fallen Order, one has to wonder how these works were so successful compositionally. I think the answer is project leadership. If you look at the making-of documentary for J:FO, you can see that, as with many EU projects, the people that made it were great lovers of the property themselves. They understood the franchise, were very respectful of what came before, but also managed to competently create something new - even according to the parameters of the new canon.
Similarly with The Mandalorian, the showrunner was Jon Favreau, who has already demonstrated just this on a massive scale with the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
I believe there's a methodology associated with being a good steward of a much-loved franchise, and these people have demonstrated it.
The Sequel Trilogy managers, however, have not. From having no plan, to taking stupid risks, to injecting politics, and to denying all responsibility for outcomes, what they've demonstrated is ignorance, disrespect, and incompetence.
One can only hope that changes occur so that this doesn't happen again.
I kind of doubt it though.
Stupid dialogue, stupid writing, and worst of all, stupid entire premise from the get-go.
At this point, I'm not even angry. When I consider the disfigured mess this new trilogy was, I feel a deep sense of sadness. A new Star Wars trilogy. Not just a game or a TV show, but a main movie trilogy. What an incredibly opportunity to revitalize Star Wars in the cultural zeitgeist, energize enthusiasts, and bring in new generations of fans. Instead we got this mangled mess.
Yep.
I take issue with the claim that the movies did not get a good reception because the 'fans were toxic'. No. The fans are reasonable. Look at how most of the world loves The Mandalorian and Jedi: Fallen Order. Everyone wants Star Wars to succeed, and are waiting with open arms for when it does. 'The fans are toxic' is just an excuse. The Sequel Trilogy were just bad movies. That's it.
On the subject of The Mandalorian and Jedi: Fallen Order, one has to wonder how these works were so successful compositionally. I think the answer is project leadership. If you look at the making-of documentary for J:FO, you can see that, as with many EU projects, the people that made it were great lovers of the property themselves. They understood the franchise, were very respectful of what came before, but also managed to competently create something new - even according to the parameters of the new canon.
Similarly with The Mandalorian, the showrunner was Jon Favreau, who has already demonstrated just this on a massive scale with the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
I believe there's a methodology associated with being a good steward of a much-loved franchise, and these people have demonstrated it.
The Sequel Trilogy managers, however, have not. From having no plan, to taking stupid risks, to injecting politics, and to denying all responsibility for outcomes, what they've demonstrated is ignorance, disrespect, and incompetence.
One can only hope that changes occur so that this doesn't happen again.
I kind of doubt it though.
The reason why The Mandalorian and Jedi: Fallen Order where both successful is because you had people working on both of those projects that actually KNEW Star Wars and had a plan to begin with.
The Sequel Trilogy... which we can't really call a trilogy because all three movies ended up not being related in any meaningful way aside from sharing the same characters... had absolutely no plan.
From start to finish, they lied to all of us when they said they had a plan. There was no plan. Never was.
Not only did the hire people who didn't know Star Wars for their supposed story group that was suppose to make that plan, Kathleen Kennedy's used it as a way to get her friends cushy jobs that paid a lot where they didn't have to do anything.
The J:FO crew had free reign to do whatever they needed to do to get the job done on their end without interference.
As for The Mandalorian, it was Bob Iger getting Jon Favreau in to champion the efforts of Dave Filoni and his crew to get something together.
People who understand Star Wars and have a plan.
That's all it takes. It really isn't that complicated, no where near as complicated as Kathleen Kennedy tried to make it out to be, because Star Wars isn't that complex.
The Sequel Trilogy... which we can't really call a trilogy because all three movies ended up not being related in any meaningful way aside from sharing the same characters... had absolutely no plan.
From start to finish, they lied to all of us when they said they had a plan. There was no plan. Never was.
Not only did the hire people who didn't know Star Wars for their supposed story group that was suppose to make that plan, Kathleen Kennedy's used it as a way to get her friends cushy jobs that paid a lot where they didn't have to do anything.
The J:FO crew had free reign to do whatever they needed to do to get the job done on their end without interference.
As for The Mandalorian, it was Bob Iger getting Jon Favreau in to champion the efforts of Dave Filoni and his crew to get something together.
People who understand Star Wars and have a plan.
That's all it takes. It really isn't that complicated, no where near as complicated as Kathleen Kennedy tried to make it out to be, because Star Wars isn't that complex.